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When did you first want to be a writer?

Since I purchased my first GOOSEBUMPS book in, oh, first or second grade. My parents did not believe in an allowance, but they did believe in circumventing 6-year-old Eric's "I wanna play Sega not the stupid piano!" fits by paying me a quarter for every 20 minutes I spent practicing. The rate doubled to 50 cents if I practiced before school on weekdays, before noon on weekends. If I was diligent, I could make three bucks a week. A GOOSEBUMPS book cost about $7, back then. With R.L. Stine churning those things out at a pace of one per month, I could keep up, always having the latest book as soon as it came out. I became known in the 2nd and 3rd grades as the kid who had the latest GOOSEBUMPS before anyone else. That the school librarians put GOOSEBUMPS in the “forbidden books” section of the library, off limits to all but 5th and 6th graders, added to the cool factor. I had illicit materials, books!, that delivered a fantastic high, scares!, secreted away in my Sonic the Hedgehog backpack. I used to lay out my stash on the living room floor, in chronological order, from WELCOME TO DEAD HOUSE (book #1) to THE HORROR AT CAMP JELLYJAM (book #33), and just kind of, I don’t know, bask in my collection. The only thing more fun than collecting GOOSEBUMPS, I reasoned, was writing them. Who was this R.L. Stine and how did he land such an amazing job? That someone could get paid to imagine stories all day felt like a way better way to make a buck than practicing piano. I decided to become a writer. As it turns out, paying one’s way through life as a writer is no simple task. It took R.L. Stine about a month to write a book. It took me two decades to write BET YOUR LIFE. No joke. The seeds of the story were planted long before I ever wrote a word, during my first trip to Las Vegas, when I was 12.

You first went to Vegas when you were 12?  Are you sure you don’t mean 21?

1-2. Not 2-1. And I made my first bet. Kind of. The rules at Circus Circus were, minors could walk through the casino, but they could not stop. Not even if the coast was clear of security guards because, I learned, there were cameras everywhere. On the ceiling. In the tables. Ready to catch anything fishy, like 12-year-olds succumbing to curiosity over what it would be like to pull the arm on that "Win a Corvette!" slot machine, just once, enough to tell my friends I did it, no big deal, really nothing compared to braving The Plunge waterslide at Noah's Ark in the Wisconsin Dells. Me pulling the arm was a non-starter with my parents. But they did agree to make a bet or two on my behalf. We devised a scheme. While walking through the casino, my parents asked me to pick a machine. I pointed to one. They put in a quarter and spun the reels. I kept walking, slowly, as the reels spun. It wasn’t my money, and I didn’t touch the machine, but two steps removed was still close enough to imprint the allure of anticipation in my mind. Cashing out was a thrill, since the machines spat out quarters or tokens. Real ones. We’d collect them in big plastic cups. I later fictionalized this first bet experience as a scene in BET YOUR LIFE. The scene survived many drafts. I liked the contrast between the all-in sensory overload of the Strip and nostalgia. I liked the veiled autobiography. I liked that many of my early readers liked it. Alas. Kill your babies.  Murder your darlings.  Skip your trip down memory lane.  In an effort to decrease word count and elevate tension, I ended up axing the scene.  It wasn't easy to do so.  It felt like taking the family golden retriever out behind the shed.  Or at least flushing the first goldfish ever won at an elementary school fundraiser down the toilet (RIP Jaws, circa 1993; go gently into that good toilet bowl, which is more than we can say for your movie namesake).  Click on the button to the right to read the deleted scene.

Are you a compulsive gambler?

No.

Do you know any compulsive gamblers?

Yes.

What was the inspiration for BET YOUR LIFE?

These are the steps to the Baldwin Hills Overlook in Culver City, California. I used to live nearby. Nervous about how a gym membership would stretch my Hollywood assistant salary, I often hiked the steps for a free workout. All 282 of them. Big, slabby stones of uneven heights, lengths, widths, and steepness. One year, I made it my New Year’s Resolution to run all the way up. Without stopping. Hey, it seemed like a fun challenge at the time. Bounding up the first 30 steps was glorious. Breath came easy. My legs were light and fluid. I wantonly flaunted my twentysomething youth, gazelle-like, certain that “I got this.” Around step number 50, my lungs started to tighten. It wasn’t too bad, though. I focused on breathing deeply, evenly. My legs started to burn. A good burn, though. I was past the biggest steps and nearly a fifth of the way to the top. All downhill from here, I thought, with a grin. I was still certain that “I got this.” By 70, everything felt a little worse. My lungs were tighter. I focused on deep, even breaths, but couldn’t get enough air. The burn in my legs was not a “good burn” anymore. My legs were heavy, as if my running shorts had morphed into water-logged jeans. But I was now a quarter of the way to the top, mentally repeating, the faster you run, the faster you’re done. I was no stranger to endurance exercise, having run cross-country in high school and the Chicago Marathon in college. If I could willpower my way upwards, one step at a time, soon, the next step would be the top step. I was still pretty certain that “I got this.” By 80 or 90 — the intensifying fatigue threw off the exact count — I’d downgraded my pretty certain to pretty uncertain, and as I hit 100, maybe?, my lungs felt straightjacketed, my gasps futile efforts to loosen the straps, my legs thousand-pound sequoia stumps doused in gasoline and set on fire. My body was screaming at me to stop. I kept going. “Going.” A generous term. By the low 100s, I’d slowed down. Instead of bounding up with one foot per step, I was putting two feet on each step. Then, I started sneaking in a cheaty little pause. Then, I started planting my hands on my legs to keep them from buckling. It didn’t matter. Slowing down wasn’t enough. Cheating wasn’t enough. I was certain that "I don't got this." I needed to stop. I kept going. Somewhere in the mid 100s, I started to play a mindgame. "If you stop, your script will never sell." That got me another few steps, at which point I was in so much pain the I didn’t care about a stupid script and raised the stakes. "If you stop, you will never get any, in any form, not even first base, ever again." That got me to 150, give or take, probably take, but soon I needed to raise the stakes again. "If you stop, aliens who very much do not come in peace will descend, raking lasers across the Santa Monica pier and Dodger Stadium and even"—this one hurt—"your local In-N-Out Burger." It didn’t matter. Unable to raise the motivational stakes anymore, I stopped, leaving Los Angeles to ruin. --- I went after this New Year’s Resolution several times. The farthest I ever got was to step number 190 or so before my body decided that 0 career success, 0 romantic success, and an apocalyptic Los Angeles void of double-doubles, animal style, were less painful than pushing to 200, never mind 282. These attempts left me sore-legged but not empty-handed. As I limp-hiked the rest of the way up to the overlook, I wondered, what if these mini-mindgames were real? What if, as I gazed out over Los Angeles, swarms of UFOs actually did darken the skies? An extreme, even comical, thought dreamed up by a mind woozy with exhaustion. But, I figured, you could lower the stakes, make it more believable, by playing with the criteria. I was reminded of Stephen King's "Quitters, Inc.", Roald Dahl's "The Man from the South", and that Twilight Zone episode, "The Bet." I also recalled the little throwaway bets from my own life that broke free from the confines of a casino or a racetrack. Hiking at Devil's Lake in Wisconsin as a kid and being dared by my brother to pick up a bright red centipede for a dollar. Waiting in line at Disneyland for the Haunted Mansion and overhearing a group talking about how much money you’d have to pay them to spend a night in an allegedly haunted house. Maybe gambling was more universal, more elemental, than I'd thought. Maybe, I thought, there's a story here. --- At first, I tried writing a one-hour drama TV pilot called PLACE YOUR BETS. It got encouragement, which didn’t mean much, because in LA, you can die of excessive encouragement. Being treated to a $15 mushroom swiss burger at the Grove, however, signaled that the story might be worth more than hot air. After reading the script, a low-budget horror director took me to lunch, and told me, “This thing’s crazy.” Which was a compliment, I think. Neither of us had the connections or clout to get it made, and the director was more interested in getting a cheap (e.g. free) writer to script his ideas, but I was elated. Something I’d written had earned me a meal. Now, I just had to figure out how to earn three meals a day, 365 days per year, for (knock on wood, salt over the shoulder, don't breathe while passing a graveyard) another five or six decades. As a TV pilot, PLACE YOUR BETS just wasn’t going to do that. Or be the first step to my goal of paying my way through life with the pen. No matter how much I rewrote it, the medium wasn't right. It wasn’t until I read BEAUTIFUL BOY by David Sheff and researched gambling addiction that the medium took shape. PLACE YOUR BETS should be a novel, I realized, so that I could more readily access the thought patterns of a gambling addict. BEAUTIFUL BOY, traveling to Vegas as a 12-year-old, running up the Culver City stairs. I’m sure there were many other inspirations, remembered and imagined, long untethered from their origin. Maybe that’s a good thing. I’m interested in authors' motivations, but I’m appreciative of a common refrain: in the end, many don’t know where their ideas come from. After all, what’s a story without a bit of mystery?

The stone stairway to perspiration and inspiration while I was living in Los Angeles.  Photo courtesy of Matthew Anderson.

Beyond gambling as a 12-year-old and running up stairs, what research did you do?

In an interview with Book Browse, David Benioff (THE 25TH HOUR, CITY OF THIEVES, GAME OF THRONES TV show), shared this advice: “I had a wonderful teacher once, the novelist Ann Patchett. I asked her about the research she did for The Magician's Assistant, and she told me to choose the single best book on the given subject and study it obsessively. Writers are always tempted to track down dozens of books to help give our make-believe stories that tang of authenticity, but often the problem with too much research is a writing style that seems too researched, dry and musty, and eager for a history teacher's gold star of approval.” For me, the one single best book that I studied obsessively was Pete Earley’s SUPER CASINO. Even before starting work on BET YOUR LIFE, I’d known of Pete Earley from an event in college. He came by campus, joining some students and me for dinner at a professor’s home to discuss his fascinating and heartbreaking book, CRAZY: A FATHER’S SEARCH THROUGH AMERICA’S MENTAL HEALTH MADNESS. During the talk, I was amazed not only by the Indiana Jones-like adventures Pete Earley went on in pursuit of his stories, but also his good humor. He had us laughing and gasping, sometimes at the same time, late into the evening. When I started investigating sources for BET YOUR LIFE, then, I knew Pete Earley’s take on Vegas would be my One Resource to Rule Them All. I sat down with SUPER CASINO, a spiral notebook, and three pens (black for quotes, blue for ideas, red for emphasis), and mined it for themes, episodes, characters, and inspiration.

Some notes from SUPER CASINO by Pete Earley.  Although slower than copy and pasting from the internet, I like handwriting most of my research.  There's something about digging facts out of printed books with an arsenal of pens and highlighters that, in some small way, allows me to live out a career-path-not-followed as a paleontologist.  And yes, I've already been Dr. Alan Grant for Halloween.  

How do I know if I'll like BET YOUR LIFE?

Everything is a gamble, books included. When I try a new book, I’m “betting” my time, mental focus, and money to “win” a few hours of entertainment, at minimum. Maybe learn something new, if I’m lucky. Maybe, if I’m really lucky, feel understood, altered, and healed. Heart, mind, soul: my favorite books hit me on all three fronts. But even one out of three ain’t bad. I know of no other way to tell if you’ll win or lose with BET YOUR LIFE other than this: step right up, crack open the book, and make your bet. If you like any of these authors, you might like my book, too. Kathleen Barber: With a finger on the pulse of social media, Barber’s thrillers, TRUTH BE TOLD and FOLLOW ME, make timely some timeless thriller themes: paranoia, voyeurism, stalking, psychological manipulation, double lives. The use of podcasts in TRUTH BE TOLD, Instagram in FOLLOW ME, and gaming apps in BET YOUR LIFE all explore the inner-dystopian lurking behind the outward-utopian. Barber’s plotting, too, is ambitious enough to keep even seasoned mystery-readers guessing. FOLLOW ME doesn’t stop at one red herring. Or two. Or three. The “Him” chapters can apply to any of the possessive creepy dudes in Audrey’s life. Which one is the killer? There’s enough evidence speckled throughout so that we can make a case for any of them. In planning the twists in BET YOUR LIFE, I took a note from Barber and tried to make each twist hard to predict without playing unfairly with the reader. Blake Crouch: Crouch’s latest books (DARK MATTER, RECURSION, UPGRADE) offer tours of modern storyworlds altered by a single fascinating “what if”? What if we could explore the paths not taken (DARK MATTER)? What if we could edit our memories (RECURSION)? What if our genomes were altered to make us smarter and stronger (UPGRADE)? As a result, we get treated to grounded time travel, grounded multiverses, grounded superheroes. I endeavored to do the same. BET YOUR LIFE takes place in a present-day Vegas that’s spiced up by a near-future twist on gambling. We already gamble money on cards, dice, sports, even elections. What if we could gamble on, well, ourselves? Adrian McKinty: THE CHAIN is a high-concept thriller about Rachel O’Neill, a community college teacher—not a cop, a lawyer, or special agent—whose daughter is the next abducted in a kidnapping chain. An evil and seemingly unbreakable operation versus a community college teacher who will now try to break the chain: the David vs. Goliath match-up on a rigged chessboard is a hallmark of an excellent game thriller. The game must be unfair to our hero. The final battle in GLADIATOR wouldn’t be the same if Emperor Commodus (Joaquin Phoenix) hadn’t secretively stabbed Maximus (Russell Crowe) before rising into the colosseum. I love underdog stories and try to instill the same "how the heck is Mark gonna get out of this?" drama into BET YOUR LIFE. Rob Hart: Utopian for customers, dystopian for workers: that’s the friction sparking THE WAREHOUSE, a workplace thriller that is a compelling manifestation of one of Ursula K. LeGuin’s observations about how good sf extrapolates the present to an extreme: “‘If this goes on, this is what will happen.’” The evil company in THE WAREHOUSE, Cloud, is a device to critique Amazon just as the evil casino in BET YOUR LIFE is a device to critique DraftKings, FanDuel, and the gamification of our lives. Marcus Sakey: In college, I wrote Marcus Sakey an email about how much I loved his debut, THE BLADE ITSELF. “This book reminded me why I chose to major in English,” I wrote. At the time, I was disappointed with the dullness of many of the books I was forced to read in class, and I thought a lot about Twain’s quote about the classics. I devoured THE BLADE ITSELF, which I found just as rich with ethical conflicts and symbolism as the so-called “important” literary works I was writing essays about. Only BLADE was also much more exciting. I needed to be reminded that a book could be both well-plotted and full of literary nutrition. Why can’t kale taste as good as a Cadbury Fruit & Nut chocolate bar without losing its superfood status? In book form, it can. Catherine Steadman: The audio book version of SOMETHING IN THE WATER made my interminable drives through Los Angeles traffic end far too soon. Steadman, of DOWNTON ABBEY fame, is, of course, a talented actress, whose narrative performance captured perfectly the voice of her story. The awe she channeled into Erin’s voice as she describes Bora Bora is transportive. That’s the paradise part. Soon comes the trouble. I love vacation thrillers, and SOMETHING IN THE WATER is inventive with its “trouble in paradise” motif. With BET YOUR LIFE, I tried to do the same by corrupting Vegas landmarks with sinister scenes.

When will you publish BET YOUR LIFE?

I hope soon.  I’m heading to Thriller Fest in NYC this summer.  I’ll attend classes with some of my favorite writers and pitch the book to agents.  

Will there be an ebook?

Yes.

Will there be a print book?

Yes.

Will there be an audiobook?

Yes.  My friend Calvin Marty has recorded the first three chapters. 

Play Chapter 1

Play Chapter 2

Play Chapter 3

Will there be an Augmented Reality book?

I hope not.  

Did you use AI to write the book?

No.  Of course not.  Robots haven’t felt the fiery kiss of the Mojave sun as they stagger past desiccated burroweed and creosote bushes, thumb jutting up, the very thumb that will be lost to a cigar cutter if that next car blows by in a plume of dust.  ChatGPT doesn’t know what it’s like to lay bare the grisliest skeleton in your closet and gamble it on whether your loved ones will leave you when you tell them what you’ve done.  That one scene where Mark eats Goat Cookie-flavored ice cream?  5:1 odds it’s pure coincidence. 

How will you market your book?

By going into space and reading it by the light of the Luxor’s beam.

Really?

No, I have a weak stomach.  I can’t even handle the teacup ride at Disneyland.  I’m studying up on how to market a book.  Mostly that means getting used to my face on TikTok and Instagram, which is uncanny, as it’s not how I see myself in the mirror or my mind’s eye.  Also, I have a loose thought to do BET YOUR LIFE playing cards.  If you do marketing or PR for newbie authors with some wild ideas but without platforms or celebrity status, please get in touch.   

What are you working on next?

A thriller about a shoebox?

Not the box, but the shoes in it.  Imagine an old pair of running shoes that, when worn, force the wearer to keep running and running and running until their heart explodes.  Think SPEED meets THE HAUNTED MASK.

Sounds, um, great?

As I go about my life, sometimes, a story idea, scene, line of dialogue, plot development, and so on, comes along. The other day, for instance, I was driving on the expressway when a noisy little sports car cut me off and zipped ahead, weaving through traffic and nearly clipping everyone else just trying to get to their destination safely. I was furious. I was relieved. The one time I wished for a speedtrap, and not a single highway trooper was around. I felt an overpowering desire for justice unquenched. It was a cloudy day, cumulus nimbus billowing in a heaven-blue sky. As my heartrate slowed and my grip around the wheel relaxed, I imagined the clouds swirling together into a giant hand. Palm the size of Kansas. Fingers F5 tornadoes. Then, I imagined this hand reaching down to the westbound Stevenson expressway, and just, like, I don’t know, plucking that stupid daredevil sports car off the expressway, rolling it into a little ball, and flicking it like a petulant kindergartner might flick a booger. Then my mind was off to the races, wondering about what other justice this Hand of God might deliver, and perhaps what other cloudy anatomical divine features might form. When I got to my destination, I scribbled a few notes on a 3x5 index card. I keep a few in various places: my nigthstand, my backpack, my car. Taking notes on my phone works in a pinch, but I prefer the tangible space limitation of an index card in focusing the idea on its central "so what?" When I returned home that evening, I tossed the notecard into the shoebox. I don't know if I'll ever write that story. Sometimes, ideas that seem attractive at the time lose their luster, like stones removed from a creek bed, their jewel-like allure faded. Other times, they keep nagging, hardened inmates doing reverse-pushups against the toilet seat, growing stronger, waiting to grab me by the throat, forcing me to unleash them.

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